Disruptive leadership

Lee Griffith: 00:00:00

You could just imagine that I've got this

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What's this is another very niche cartoon reference.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: We've moved on from Lee-isms I find in this

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series, and we're just going for niche references that only a

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small percentage of our listeners are likely to

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understand.

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Welcome to How to Take the Lead the podcast where

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we challenge the myths and stereotypes of what it means to

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be a leader today, and help you to succeed in post without

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compromise.

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I'm Lee Griffith,

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Carrie-Ann Wade: and I'm Carrie-Ann Wade, and together we

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will be your guide question everything we've ever learned

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about leadership, sharing our experiences along the way, and

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inspiring you to make a real impact in

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your role visit how

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to take the lead.com For show notes past

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episodes and join our community.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Enjoy this episode. Hello, everybody, and

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welcome to this next episode of how to take the lead I carry out

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those of you who might not be regular listeners, I'm here with

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the lovely Lea, I don't know if you want to say hello, hello.

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Before we get into the

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I've been watching loads of University Challenge

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and I was just I felt like well you're

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Carrie-Ann Wade: practicing your University Challenge moment with

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the wave. So if you're watching over on YouTube, you will have

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got Lisa Holly's going to say hi when she appears on University

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Challenge at some point. Brilliant. I love it. Before we

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get into the bones of the episode, I'll do a little bit of

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housekeeping if that's okay with you, Lee, just to say that we

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are on your favorite podcast platform. We drop in every

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Thursday with a new episode, you can get all of the links for

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that over at how to take the lead.com where you can also find

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out more about catching up with us on the socials, we are on

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Instagram. And you can also sign up to our substack community

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where four episodes of the podcast in series four, we have

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also been publishing. I've called them companion articles,

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but I don't know if that's what they are is that sounds a bit

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old fashioned. But we've been publishing articles every week

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alongside the episode with a few more thoughts and some insight

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following on from our conversations. And if you are a

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paid subscriber a full on substack, you will also get some

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added extras including prompts, helpful tips, additional

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resources. And so if you are into how to take the lead, go on

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over to the website and check all of that out and engage with

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us. Is there anything else I need to say about how people can

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generally get in touch with us or follow along with the action?

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Or when we're on YouTube? We're on YouTube. I mentioned it early

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doors but yes, we're also on YouTube if hearing our dulcet

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tones is not enough for you. You can also watch us as you go over

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on YouTube. So I think that's everything that's all the places

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where as how to take the lead. So I will well first of all, I

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should ask you how you are I normally do and I haven't they

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literally straight down to business by business. How are

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you?

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Thank you. Yeah. Actually, I've had a I've had a

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busy day. I just not long got off a meeting and I ran out to

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use ablutions and go and get myself a fresh cup before I

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hopped on to this coffee and I looked in the mirror and thought

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oh, this ghastly to go on television like and then I

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thought what can we undo carry on would put on a lipstick. So

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I've put on a lipstick and it's elevated me

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Carrie-Ann Wade: it's elevated again it goes lovely with that

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top. I have to say that

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was a bad side. I literally just put my hand in or

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it could have been like some vampy purple.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Whatever came out it was potluck on the

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lipstick front. Well, I'm glad you're feeling elevated. I'm

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glad you've had a busy day. My day has been a bit more chilled.

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Actually, I've been I've been having a sort of catch up day,

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which has been nice. And it's very rare in the day job at

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least that I don't have a day full of meetings, but I didn't

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today. So I've just been catching up on my admin booking

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in some of the meetings that I need to have over the next few

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weeks. I'm feeling quite on top of things, which is very nice.

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Don't advertise that you've got me though,

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because people will not allow that to happen again.

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Absolutely.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: And also it was a good reminder for me to put my

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time blocking in for the chunks of time where I'm like, right

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this is time I'm doing a project. This is my admin time,

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just to anybody looking just sees the more grayed out and

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they can't sneak in a meeting that I don't want to have. So

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yes, taking some of our own advice about managing my time.

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So yes, thank you for asking me. And so we will now get into the

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bones of this episode and We are going to talk about disruptive

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leadership today. If that's alright with you, it shouldn't

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be a surprise because obviously, some listeners may not think

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this, but we do prep these conversations a little bit so

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that we're, you know, we're both talking about the same topic. So

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today's topic is disruptive leadership. And I was just going

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to set the scene a little bit about what we mean when we're

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having the conversation about being a disruptive leader,

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because we do mean it in the main in a more positive sense.

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So we're not talking about people being disruptive to be

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difficult and awkward and making trouble troublemakers a good

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description, we are talking about disruptive leadership in

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that positive sense. So it might be about well, it will be about

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challenging the status quo, because that's what we're about

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here at how to take the lead. But it's about maybe those

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leaders who are willing to try new things put themselves out

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there. But all in the hope of making progress and improvement

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do the right thing. So that's the kind of context in which

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we're talking about disruptive leadership today. And I thought

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maybe to start a softly I would ask you, how might you describe

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a disruptive leader? So what sort of traits or

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characteristics do you think disruptive leaders have just to

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kind of get us in that headspace?

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So I think the first thing is Yeah, disruptive

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doesn't mean, troublesome, because I think some people

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might perceive you as that. And maybe we'll get into that later.

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And because usually, it means something to do with change, and

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people don't like change, they might label you that you are a

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troublemaker, but that isn't at the heart of what we're talking

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about today. For me, I think it boils down to someone who isn't

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willing to accept the status quo. And so you see in

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organizations that mentality of well, we've always done it like

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this. And I think a disrupter is someone who asks why. And now

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take a risk and want to take a step into the unknown, they'll

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be seeking to ask and answer a lot of questions that challenge

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the way things are done. And I think they're really comfortable

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with change. And being apart from the crowd, they don't want

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to just have that the sheep kind of mentality. And, and really

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comfortable with sitting with uncertainty, which which can

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often happen in a disruptive space. And I think successful

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disruptors have a self awareness, so they know when to

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push and when to back off. And I think we'll probably get into

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some of that a bit a bit later in the conversation. Yeah,

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Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that. And when you were talking about,

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he said, about being comfortable with change, one of the thoughts

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I'd had, I hadn't used the word comfortable, but I really liked

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that actually, I'd kind of gotten more of a quite

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optimistic that change can happen if they're pushing or

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pulling at the right levers. And you know, I've got the right

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strategy to make that change. So I think they're not willing to

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accept that the way things are now. That's the way it has to be

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forever, if they can see that there's room for improvement. So

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yeah, absolutely agree with you. And in in some of my own

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experience, I've found some of the disruptive leaders that I've

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worked with to actually be quite encouraging. And so as well as

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that challenge, they kind of challenge you in a in more of an

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encouraging way to kind of get you onto their same page with

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the thinking about, about change and making those improvements.

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And I've often found that disruptive leaders do have that

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clarity of vision and purpose into the longer term. And that's

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what probably drives their, their level of disruption and

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desire to want to make that change.

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I interviewed the chief exec for my other podcast,

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and he told me

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Carrie-Ann Wade: it's all right, she is allowed to talk about it,

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everyone we don't mind. It's what did you call it, the cousin

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of I can't remember what you called it with cousin of how to

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take the lead.

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But he said something, and in my mind was

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describing a disruptive behavior. And he said, he wasn't

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interested in best practice. He was focused on next practice.

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And I really loved that frame in because it's helping you to

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focus on the need to improve and move forwards and obviously,

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they're not falling behind, or maintaining the status quo.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that and I've listened to that episode.

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And that was one of my big takeaways actually lay around

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that next practice rather than best because I think there's a

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connotation with best practice that if you're achieving it,

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then you can just stop because you're achieving that best is

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practice, but actually it's about that drive, isn't it to

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continually improve and push things forward. So, so good luck

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beside Lee, thank

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you enjoyed that one, I'm glad you boosted my

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listening.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: There'll be a link in the show notes, I'm

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sure. Um, so I think that's helpful in terms of setting the

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scene about maybe the type of person and type of leader that

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we're talking about in this space of disruption. And but

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I've wondered if we could explore a bit more now, what

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might be the benefits of disruptive leadership, because

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we've talked about it not being around troublemaking not being

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about just being disruptive for dis disruption sake. So what are

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the benefits of having a disruptive leader or disruptive

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leadership style in your organization?

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I think for me, it's at the heart of it. It's

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about bringing innovation and new thinking and new ideas into

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an organization. And when you do that, you're bringing an energy

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and an excitement to both the team and the organization. So

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then you then you start to look at those ripple effects. So you

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have that it makes you a place where other people want to work,

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you become an attractive organization, you become known

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reputation leaders as something that that don't, you know,

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somewhere that does things differently, and people want to

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work with you. And I think it just, it helps breed a genuine

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improvement, whether it's performance, whether it's

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morale, whether it's reputation. And I think if we look at from

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an end user perspective, even if we look at ourselves, and how we

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operate as human beings, assuming we all are human

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beings, or is ticking

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Carrie-Ann Wade: the box, I am not a robot,

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we, you know, we want more over time, we want

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things to be innovative, we expect more from the

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organizations that we work with, we want to see improvements in

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the services that we use. And this is only ever going to come

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about through leaders who are themselves or are of others

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encouraging some form of disruption.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah, absolutely. It's that

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willingness for yourself, but also that ability to encourage

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and empower others, isn't it to to get into that space where

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people are thinking and doing in terms of innovation

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transformation. And for me, it's about that journey of like

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progress. So we just talked about it in the last last answer

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to the question, which was around like moving forwards,

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always pushing rather than accepting things have to be the

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way they've always been. So So yeah, I don't disagree with with

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anything you've said there. And I think the bit for me, as a

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leader is actually thinking about the fact that it does

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bring results. So actually, there are results that come for

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your organization, your teams, like you say it might be your

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customers, your stakeholders from having a level of

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disruption in your organization. And it's about that openness to

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that I think for me, I think it's hard to achieve some of

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those benefits if there isn't that open approach and

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encouragement for that disruption to happen. Yeah. And

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so I guess on the flip side of the benefits, we should talk

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about it and you've already mentioned there is a perception

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sometimes perhaps them being a disruptive leader means that you

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are a troublemaker or someone who is on purpose, trying to

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poke the bear maybe as it were, but are there any disadvantages,

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in your view lead to disruptive leadership? Or are there any dis

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benefits to disruptive leaders?

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Yeah, I mean, I think it depends on a the type

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of disruption that you're you're causing. We've we've probably

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all worked with people who themselves might think they are

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being disruptors. But actually the troublemaker, and what they

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do is cause chaos and harm. But they do it in their view, you

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know, they believe their Why is to be disruptive and shake to

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shake things up. But actually, it can have a real negative

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impact on culture, if they're not doing disruption in the

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right way. I think there's issues of pace. So some people

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move on, really quickly to the next thing and people can't keep

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up with particularly that, you know, in innovative people their

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mind might be wearing, they might be like, Oh, well I've,

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I've said this for for implementation or execution. I'm

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moving on to the next thing. So that can be really hard for

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people to keep up with. And, and I think also it's the it's

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there's it's not just the type of disruption but it's how you

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disrupt. So the tact and approach that you take to take

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people with you on that journey. So you're going to have People

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who perhaps as we said, right at the start, don't see the need

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for change. We've always done it like this. And actually, you

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could offend them if you don't make the case for change in the

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right way. And they might think, Oh, do you think I'm out of

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touch or out of date, and they might double down on their own

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behaviors and thinking. But also, if you're a disrupter,

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you're you from a personality trait point of view, you're

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likely to be really happy and comfortable with challenging

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things. And you probably have a confidence in your decision

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making and the way that you execute things. You may be happy

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with confronting issues, because that's how you kind of get the

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Gretton and get stuff moving on. But the the kind of other side

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of that is that that might come across as intimidating and it

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might come across as adversarial with people. And so yeah, that

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that way that you approach, disruption is really important.

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And I think that is it. Oh, what's the guy's name? Facebook

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guy, Mark Zuckerberg, that's it. He said something around, move

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fast and break things. And that was his mantra at Facebook. And

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yes, that's can be a way that disruptors work. But you can

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imagine in your organization, where you perhaps aren't known

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for innovation, you might not be cutting edge to have someone

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come in acting that way. You could just imagine that I've got

Lee Griffith: 00:16:41

this. What's this is another very niche cartoon reference.

Lee Griffith: 00:16:49

Carrie-Ann Wade: We've moved on funnily isms, I fit in this

Lee Griffith: 00:16:51

series, and we're just going for niche references that only a

Lee Griffith: 00:16:54

small percentage of our listeners are likely to

Lee Griffith: 00:16:57

understand.

Lee Griffith: 00:16:58

I'm not thinking of wily Coyote, I'm thinking of

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the Oh,

Lee Griffith: 00:17:02

Carrie-Ann Wade: the Tasmanian devil, our the Tasmanian devil

Lee Griffith: 00:17:05

that you'd like wells around and yeah, causes chaos. I

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forgot why that came into my head as I was

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talking. But anyway, that's the image I leave you with. I think

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I think with

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Carrie-Ann Wade: that image in mind, I think you're right,

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like, because some of what you've described is about the

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culture of the organization, isn't it. And actually, if

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you're a disruptive leader, going into an organization that

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maybe hasn't had that kind of leadership before, is going to

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take that time to take people on the journey with you and

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actually be an alone disrupter and not building into your

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approach to disruption, that taking people on the journey,

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that engagement that really trying to get the buy in for the

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future state you're trying to create will actually be really

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challenging. And you won't see those results that we've talked

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about that you can get as a benefit from from that

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disruption. So I think that's really important to think about.

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And you've mentioned already, the couple of things that were

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really in, really in my head, I guess around doing disruption

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the right way, which was that change pace, bringing people on

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the journey with you, because you have to start from the point

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that not everyone is going to be on the same page at the same

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time as you are. So actually, how do you get people to that

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point where everyone is feeling more comfortable and more able

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to accept that level of disruption, let alone them

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potentially empower them to do the disruption for themselves?

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And I think sometimes, and you mentioned this as well, early on

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in what you were saying the that disruptive leaders maybe have

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that were in mind that is moving on to the next idea all the

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time. What's the next innovation, and sometimes in my

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experience, disruptive leaders don't leave things long enough

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to embed them or to see the results to enable them to assess

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what the next step should be, because they've already moved

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like 10 steps ahead or to another idea. And I think

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sometimes that can feel a little bit dangerous, because you're

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not doing that assessment and evaluation piece to go actually,

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is the innovation or transformational change I've put

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in place doing what what I intended it to do. And because

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you've already kind of forgotten about it and moved on. So I

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think there is something there about that being a potential

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disadvantage if you don't have the insight as a disruptive

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leader to maybe do that evaluation and measurement piece

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and just take a breath sometimes and pause because that that is

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okay.

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And also it's it's about knowing what are the wins

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you want to go for like not every idea has to be executed.

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Not everything needs to be action right here and now. You

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can sometimes create a false sense of urgency and this this

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frustrates me about Oregon. isolation is when they have to

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have a burning platform to get everything to change. And, and

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that's where we tend to fall down with change. If you

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actually look at the percentage of successful change programs in

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organizations, it's really low, it's like less than 30% of

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change is successful. And that's because, you know, process,

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considerate consideration, communication, all of that gets

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pushed by the wayside. And

Lee Griffith: 00:20:28

Carrie-Ann Wade: yeah, I don't disagree with you at all. So I

Lee Griffith: 00:20:32

guess as we're talking, some of what we're describing really

Lee Griffith: 00:20:36

does sound like personality type and sort of character traits of

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people to kind of be working in that way, because that is what

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comes naturally to them. So I was wondering if you know, there

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are people listening to this, and they're thinking, Oh, my

Lee Griffith: 00:20:51

God, all of this is so anxiety and Jason and it feels really

Lee Griffith: 00:20:54

scary to me, because it's not the natural state in which I

Lee Griffith: 00:20:58

feel comfortable working. Can you develop a disruptive

Lee Griffith: 00:21:03

leadership style? And if so, kind of how do you go about

Lee Griffith: 00:21:07

doing that?

Lee Griffith: 00:21:10

Personally, I think you can like with any bit

Lee Griffith: 00:21:12

of the leadership, toolbox, toolkit, whatever you want to

Lee Griffith: 00:21:16

call it, that all of them though, they're like muscles and

Lee Griffith: 00:21:20

skills that you just have to keep working on. And it might be

Lee Griffith: 00:21:23

a really, really tiny muscle or it might be you know, my glutes

Lee Griffith: 00:21:26

are killing me today because I did a massive workout, but like

Lee Griffith: 00:21:29

it just

Lee Griffith: 00:21:32

Carrie-Ann Wade: I had a lot of leg action yesterday actually.

Lee Griffith: 00:21:35

So it really hurt when I came up the stairs today.

Lee Griffith: 00:21:39

So it's like that but being conscious about what

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it is you're you know, you know, you worked on your legs

Lee Griffith: 00:21:45

yesterday, they hurt today, you bet you're gonna carry on going

Lee Griffith: 00:21:48

going for it and exercising anyway, I'm taking that analogy

Lee Griffith: 00:21:52

a bit too far. But I think that behind it, there is a lot of

Lee Griffith: 00:21:56

mindset stuff that's at play. So you might not be comfortable

Lee Griffith: 00:22:03

with change or taking risks for example. And maybe you need to

Lee Griffith: 00:22:10

work on trust and trust in your peers. For them to be the

Lee Griffith: 00:22:15

disruptive ones there are all types of things you might need

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to work on as a leader and that doesn't mean that you couldn't

Lee Griffith: 00:22:24

get there but it goes back to that self awareness piece and

Lee Griffith: 00:22:29

understanding of way where you need to work and it might just

Lee Griffith: 00:22:32

be you need to dip your toe in the water you know, when I

Lee Griffith: 00:22:36

learned to swim I didn't go and jump off the 50 meter diving

Lee Griffith: 00:22:40

board and just hoped it happens I had lessons so maybe you don't

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you know if you're not someone who wants to disrupt don't turn

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the whole organization upside down start small and build on

Lee Griffith: 00:22:52

that you learn Yeah, this week my my level of disruption was

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I've been really thinking about time and how I use my time and

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the concept of time and that we feel like we've never got enough

Lee Griffith: 00:23:06

time and you know me and anyone that listens to this knows me

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that I love a Trello board I love a notion jest or you know I

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plan every

Lee Griffith: 00:23:15

Carrie-Ann Wade: view are the most organized and planned

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person I genuinely know in my entire life. I've

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ripped up my to do list this week right and you're

Lee Griffith: 00:23:26

right that's me being disruptive to myself you love that love

Lee Griffith: 00:23:30

that love in me

Lee Griffith: 00:23:31

Carrie-Ann Wade: is constraining you potentially from I feel like

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this could be a whole spin off episode just exploring this with

Lee Griffith: 00:23:39

you Lee or like you know what is it like the extra slice on the

Lee Griffith: 00:23:41

Bake Off or whatever is like need to get into this at some

Lee Griffith: 00:23:44

point with Lee

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I can't I can't do another year where I dick about

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with with kind of different variations of tables and charts

Lee Griffith: 00:23:55

to try and manage my time because there will never be

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enough time and because also the time it takes you working out

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which is the best one of those for you to use. It's time you

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could have spent doing one of the things exactly exactly so

Lee Griffith: 00:24:08

you know that's majorly disrupt yeah to me it is working so you

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can start small we need to be honest

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Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm sorry listeners. I'm sorry listeners.

Lee Griffith: 00:24:18

I am still astounded by this because of all the people I

Lee Griffith: 00:24:21

thought it was going to say they ripped up their to do list it

Lee Griffith: 00:24:24

was not going to be unique with it

Lee Griffith: 00:24:28

I'm loving it.

Lee Griffith: 00:24:29

Carrie-Ann Wade: I can't wait to see how this goes for you. Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:24:32

yeah, I'm just gonna be free and easy by the

Lee Griffith: 00:24:35

seat of my pants that maybe a little stain because I'll be

Lee Griffith: 00:24:39

breaking inside

Lee Griffith: 00:24:44

Carrie-Ann Wade: oh what what an image for your listeners

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See, this is what happens when I take away

Lee Griffith: 00:24:51

structure

Lee Griffith: 00:24:52

Carrie-Ann Wade: it disruption I fear may have gone too far too

Lee Griffith: 00:24:54

soon.

Lee Griffith: 00:24:56

You're like a different person. I forgot this

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is gonna live on you. YouTube

Lee Griffith: 00:25:00

Carrie-Ann Wade: forever. I will try to get us back on track at

Lee Griffith: 00:25:06

some point, but I'm still in this moment. Sorry.

Lee Griffith: 00:25:12

Oh, yeah, I was good. So I was gonna say so you

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can start by starting small you don't need to like turn the

Lee Griffith: 00:25:19

world though I feel like for you, I've just done that you've

Lee Griffith: 00:25:22

turned my world upside

Lee Griffith: 00:25:23

Carrie-Ann Wade: down what's happened to me I rely on you to

Lee Griffith: 00:25:25

be the organizer with the To Do lists. So goodness knows what's

Lee Griffith: 00:25:29

gonna happen for the future of how to take the lead.

Lee Griffith: 00:25:33

So I've still got like a semi, she's not gonna go

Lee Griffith: 00:25:36

Carrie-Ann Wade: one step at a time. As you said, that's your

Lee Griffith: 00:25:38

point, one of references going on today, I

Lee Griffith: 00:25:44

do not know what is happening. But anyhow, moving

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on from the pants.

Lee Griffith: 00:25:50

Carrie-Ann Wade: It's your point, isn't it one step at a

Lee Griffith: 00:25:51

time. So you've not, you're not going totally out there with

Lee Griffith: 00:25:54

that you still got some semi structure, which is making me

Lee Griffith: 00:25:57

feel better about everything.

Lee Griffith: 00:25:59

It could be as simple as I'm gonna start

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questioning every assumption I've made this week or whatever,

Lee Griffith: 00:26:06

you know, yes, at the basis of stepping into creating a

Lee Griffith: 00:26:11

disruptive leadership approach you yourself is, what's the

Lee Griffith: 00:26:16

question I'm trying to answer in disrupting this thing. And there

Lee Griffith: 00:26:21

is a really good book that I have, for our viewers, I don't

Lee Griffith: 00:26:26

know if you can see that and

Lee Griffith: 00:26:28

Carrie-Ann Wade: love that disruptive ideas with the are in

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the eye in

Lee Griffith: 00:26:34

Leandro Herrero, hopefully, I pronounced that

Lee Griffith: 00:26:38

right. But he walks through in that book, some pretty like

Lee Griffith: 00:26:45

everyday stuff that you could disrupt at work. So it could be

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looking at your structures and the ways of working, it could be

Lee Griffith: 00:26:54

disrupting how you run your meetings. And he gets you in

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each chapter to imagine what different would look like for

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each scenario? And then you start to plot out well, what

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will that mean, in terms of how people would behave? What would

Lee Griffith: 00:27:09

that mean, in terms of how they'd work? What's the impact

Lee Griffith: 00:27:12

of that going to be? If they start behaving and working in

Lee Griffith: 00:27:15

that way? What steps would I need to take to get us there and

Lee Griffith: 00:27:19

actually, in and of itself is a really powerful coaching

Lee Griffith: 00:27:22

exercise, like you're imagining your future self. And and always

Lee Griffith: 00:27:27

doing that exercise is helping you to test the level of

Lee Griffith: 00:27:31

discomfort and disruption that you might be happy with?

Lee Griffith: 00:27:34

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that. And could I build on what you

Lee Griffith: 00:27:37

said there about the starting small. And you know, you don't

Lee Griffith: 00:27:41

have to want to change the whole world in one, one fell swoop

Lee Griffith: 00:27:44

because I think there's something for me about, if you

Lee Griffith: 00:27:48

don't feel as comfortable in that space, how you can get more

Lee Griffith: 00:27:51

comfortable there around creating a better relationship

Lee Griffith: 00:27:55

with failure. Because some of what I've noticed when I work

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with people is that the reason they feel anxious about

Lee Griffith: 00:28:06

challenging something, or thinking there might be a better

Lee Griffith: 00:28:09

or different way to do it, is because there they fear that the

Lee Griffith: 00:28:13

new way might fail. And so therefore, they rather stick

Lee Griffith: 00:28:17

with where they are, because at least they know that and they

Lee Griffith: 00:28:19

can stay in the comfort of that. And they don't have to think

Lee Griffith: 00:28:23

about well, what if the change I tried to make doesn't work. So I

Lee Griffith: 00:28:27

definitely think there's something for me around that

Lee Griffith: 00:28:29

mindset shift, if you want to move into that disrupter space

Lee Griffith: 00:28:34

around giving yourself and the other people that you work with

Lee Griffith: 00:28:37

that permission to not only try the new thing, but also to fail

Lee Griffith: 00:28:42

at it. Because there's always going to be learning from that

Lee Griffith: 00:28:45

failure. So I don't, you know, don't go down that and please

Lee Griffith: 00:28:48

share the failures, never a failure and all of that kind of

Lee Griffith: 00:28:51

stuff. But actually, if you do fit fail at something, there

Lee Griffith: 00:28:54

will be an opportunity to learn from that and see what could

Lee Griffith: 00:28:57

change and be different if you try something else the next

Lee Griffith: 00:29:00

time. So for me, I think that relationship with failure, and

Lee Griffith: 00:29:04

that fear and anxiety about failing at something is

Lee Griffith: 00:29:08

sometimes the thing that holds people back from wanting to

Lee Griffith: 00:29:11

challenge the status quo or do things differently or disrupt

Lee Griffith: 00:29:15

but that starting small, and doing something that maybe

Lee Griffith: 00:29:19

initially only impacts you is the thing to do to try and get

Lee Griffith: 00:29:23

you into that mindset and change some of your behaviors. Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:29:27

yeah. Failure is almost not one of those or fear

Lee Griffith: 00:29:32

of or trying to create a scenario where you never fail.

Lee Griffith: 00:29:36

It's a falsehood. Like I'm always striving for Perth people

Lee Griffith: 00:29:40

always striving for perfection, easy for me to say. They're

Lee Griffith: 00:29:44

falsehoods that we seem to be kind of nurtured as we develop

Lee Griffith: 00:29:53

through our leadership career but actually the most impactful

Lee Griffith: 00:29:56

leaders and the high performing teams embrace failure in

Lee Griffith: 00:30:01

embrace. Good enough? Yeah. In this in striving for things to

Lee Griffith: 00:30:08

be better? Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:30:09

Carrie-Ann Wade: absolutely. So hopefully we've given people a

Lee Griffith: 00:30:13

flavor in that part of the discussion about the fact that

Lee Griffith: 00:30:16

you can try it out if this isn't the place that you feel most

Lee Griffith: 00:30:21

comfortable and confident in terms of being as a leader. So I

Lee Griffith: 00:30:25

guess as we always do, when we try to wrap up an episode, we

Lee Griffith: 00:30:29

try to give people a tip or something actionable that they

Lee Griffith: 00:30:33

can do. So I wondered Lee, to kind of draw us to a bit of a

Lee Griffith: 00:30:38

close in the conversation, what would be your top tip for

Lee Griffith: 00:30:42

someone who wants to? I'm going to describe it as stepping into

Lee Griffith: 00:30:46

their disruption. If there's somebody who was like, Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:30:49

this sounds like a bit of me, or I'm nervous about it. But I want

Lee Griffith: 00:30:53

to consider how I could be more disruptive as a leader, what tip

Lee Griffith: 00:30:57

or tips would you give to

Lee Griffith: 00:30:59

them? I would say, just choose one area that you

Lee Griffith: 00:31:07

want to just use up a little bit in some way you want to kind of

Lee Griffith: 00:31:11

bring that disruption. And ask yourself the question, what's

Lee Griffith: 00:31:15

the what's the thing you want to be different? And what what you

Lee Griffith: 00:31:18

might need to do differently to get there? And then you probably

Lee Griffith: 00:31:25

got to do a whole load of mindset work to get you to take

Lee Griffith: 00:31:27

the action, but start with start by asking the

Lee Griffith: 00:31:30

Carrie-Ann Wade: question, I love that I think that's

Lee Griffith: 00:31:32

important, isn't it, like, what's the purpose of the

Lee Griffith: 00:31:34

disruption or the change that you are trying to create and

Lee Griffith: 00:31:38

having that clarity about that is what will help you to then

Lee Griffith: 00:31:40

work out what you need to do to get yourself or, or your team

Lee Griffith: 00:31:45

there. But I love that idea of start small with something so

Lee Griffith: 00:31:48

that it doesn't feel too big and scary. It could be

Lee Griffith: 00:31:52

as simple as tonight, I'm going to brush my

Lee Griffith: 00:31:54

teeth with my toothbrush in my other hand, because that's going

Lee Griffith: 00:31:58

to really confuse my brain. And I'm going to feel really

Lee Griffith: 00:32:01

uncomfortable doing that. But once I've done it, I might then

Lee Griffith: 00:32:05

want to try something else a bit different to how I've always

Lee Griffith: 00:32:07

done it.

Lee Griffith: 00:32:09

Carrie-Ann Wade: I mean, it couldn't get more

Lee Griffith: 00:32:10

straightforward than that, could it so the challenge to the

Lee Griffith: 00:32:13

listeners who have listened to this episode, whatever day you

Lee Griffith: 00:32:16

listen to it is next time you brush your teeth, do it with

Lee Griffith: 00:32:19

your teeth brush in the opposite and and D feed back to us on any

Lee Griffith: 00:32:24

of the ways you can get in contact that's gotten for you.

Lee Griffith: 00:32:28

Um, I think for me, it would just be about that. giving

Lee Griffith: 00:32:33

yourself permission piece giving yourself permission to do

Lee Griffith: 00:32:36

something differently. But giving yourself permission to

Lee Griffith: 00:32:40

learn from that if it doesn't go the way you expect it to. That's

Lee Griffith: 00:32:43

okay, it's okay for it not to go right, whatever your perception

Lee Griffith: 00:32:48

of right might have been. And I know you've given a book,

Lee Griffith: 00:32:52

recommendation or reference already. But I would also

Lee Griffith: 00:32:56

suggest that people who are really into this and want to

Lee Griffith: 00:33:00

kind of really get to grips with that, perhaps read rebel ideas

Lee Griffith: 00:33:04

by Matthew Syed, because I think that's a really good book to get

Lee Griffith: 00:33:08

you into that mindset and think about the sorts of behaviors

Lee Griffith: 00:33:11

that you might need to demonstrate to help others to

Lee Griffith: 00:33:14

think about disruption and change as well. So that would

Lee Griffith: 00:33:17

definitely be my tip. Good

Lee Griffith: 00:33:19

case studies in that book as well of people that

Lee Griffith: 00:33:21

have done things in a different way that and that might even

Lee Griffith: 00:33:25

just be food for

Lee Griffith: 00:33:27

Carrie-Ann Wade: absolutely, yes, food for thoughts, right.

Lee Griffith: 00:33:29

That's not a lism that was perfect and fit. Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:33:33

absolutely. And these case studies will help bring it to

Lee Griffith: 00:33:35

life in terms of something tangible, that again, like you

Lee Griffith: 00:33:38

say, might give you an idea about what you could do

Lee Griffith: 00:33:41

differently, to try this style of leadership out. So yeah, that

Lee Griffith: 00:33:46

was where I wanted to get to in the conversation, some top tips

Lee Griffith: 00:33:50

for our leaders. So thank you very much for providing some

Lee Griffith: 00:33:54

insight and advice to people listening. I would be really

Lee Griffith: 00:33:58

keen to hear about listeners experiences around this in terms

Lee Griffith: 00:34:02

of either being the disrupter or potentially being on the other

Lee Griffith: 00:34:05

end of being disrupted. And what's that what that felt like

Lee Griffith: 00:34:09

for them? So do leave us comments. Catch up with us on

Lee Griffith: 00:34:13

the socials drops an email or the links are on our to take the

Lee Griffith: 00:34:17

lead.com Until next time, where we have another exciting

Lee Griffith: 00:34:22

leadership conversation.

Lee Griffith: 00:34:27

Thanks for listening. Don't forget to hit

Lee Griffith: 00:34:28

follow to make sure you get the next episode. And if today's

Lee Griffith: 00:34:31

discussion resonated, please leave a review on Apple

Lee Griffith: 00:34:34

podcasts.

Lee Griffith: 00:34:35

Carrie-Ann Wade: We also have our substack community where you

Lee Griffith: 00:34:37

can get behind the scenes info, Ask Us Anything session and

Lee Griffith: 00:34:41

build your network with like minded leaders. Visit how to

Lee Griffith: 00:34:44

take the league.substack.com To find out more. And if you want

Lee Griffith: 00:34:47

to work with us to challenge and change leadership in your

Lee Griffith: 00:34:50

organization. Get in touch by dropping us an email how to take

Lee Griffith: 00:34:53

the lead@gmail.com or DM us on the socials. Until next week.

Lee Griffith: 00:34:57

Get out there and take the lead