Self-leadership

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You think back to the early days you'll take the

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lead, we'd stop on a cocktail and we'd put the words in writes

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and now I stop on a cocktail and I'm fast asleep on the sofa

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within about five minutes. Welcome to how to take the lead

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the podcast where we challenge the myths and stereotypes of

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what it means to be a leader today, and help you to succeed

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in post without compromise.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm Lee Griffith and I'm Carrie Ann

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Wade. And together we will be your guides question everything

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we've ever learned about leadership, sharing our

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experiences along the way and inspiring you to make a real

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impact in your role visit how

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to take the lead.com For show notes past

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episodes and join our community

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Carrie-Ann Wade: enjoy this episode

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welcome in the giggles listeners do not need to know what the

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start of trying to record this episode is felt like for the two

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of us. But let's crack on. Just that was almost that newsreader

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moment when that's what I was doing right.

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Yeah.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Welcome to this episode of how to take the lead

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with me Carrie-Ann and the lovely Lee. Hello, Lee. How the

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devil are you?

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I'm I'm okay. I am I wish I was like turning up

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with the yay, go 2024 We've got this you can manage anything

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vibes. But um, but listener, I'm going to be honest, I'm not

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feeling it. I'm a bit tired. I've registered it's gonna be

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quite relevant this this episode. Because whilst I do try

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to practice all the things we're probably going to preach today.

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Even then it can still all go a bit a bit awry. It just needs a

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bit of rice sometimes doesn't it? And and you know what? I'm

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loving what you are practicing. They're

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Carrie-Ann Wade: being open, transparent and honest. So

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you're doing all the things that we say we want leaders to do. So

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thank you for sharing. And sorry to hear that you're feeling a

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bit jaded. I too am feeling a bit lackluster on the energy

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front. I'd love to say it was too much partying, but it

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absolutely isn't.

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No, no. What is a party at that age. Now, you, you

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think back to the early days, you would take the lead, we'd

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stop on a cocktail and we'd put the voting rights and now I stop

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on a cocktail and I'm fast asleep on the sofa within about

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five minutes.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: No cocktails for us. I've got my cup of tea

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at the ready not a g&t to record this episode. Anyhow, this isn't

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what the listeners have tuned in to Aris talking about. But

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before we get into the good stuff of this episode, I'm just

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going to remind people where you can find us engage with us, tell

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us what you think leave us ratings or reviews. So we are on

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all of your favorite podcast platforms. So whichever is your

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desired listening platform of choice, you can find us there,

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you can visit the website how to take lead.com where you can sign

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up to our substack community where you can get engaged in

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conversations with other like minded leaders. And if you are a

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paid up member of that substack community, with every episode,

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you get some extra special exclusive content with prompts

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and tools and tips and resources and all sorts of things to help

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you to actually put into practice some of the things that

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we have talked about in the episode. And for those of you

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who are dulcet tones or not enough, and you'd like to see

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our faces, we are also over on YouTube. And of course we are on

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Instagram, if you want to engage with us on the socials. Have I

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forgotten anything? Lee?

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No, no, I think that was pretty, pretty robust

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in terms of housekeeping.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Thank you very much say housekeeping done,

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let's get on to the topic for this episode of how to take the

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lead. And it is something that I think we have referenced before

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in other episodes of the podcast. But I'm not sure how

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much of a full and well rounded conversation we've had about it.

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But I wanted us to focus a bit of time and energy on talking

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about self leadership today. And I think it's a term that we're

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hearing a bit more of now. Self leadership is a thing. And I

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just thought it would be helpful for us to talk about what we

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think self leadership actually means what that looks like, and

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why it matters. So that was the first question I was going to

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pose Lee for listeners of this episode. What actually is self

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leadership? And when you look it up, it's really interesting

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because if you Google self leadership, so I did a bit of a

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Li and put it in Google. There are actually all sorts of

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different definitions of self leadership. So for the context

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of us having this conversation, how would you describe self

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leadership?

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So for me in the context of being at work, I

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always say it's how are you creating the right conditions

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for either high performance or to be successful, however you

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might define that success to be. So I think for me, and I love a

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bit of self leadership, it's one of the three things that I focus

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on in the work that I do with my clients. And I always say, it's

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all the stuff that you perceive to be leadership for others, but

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doing that for yourself. And it starts in a premise that you

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can't lead others well, if you don't know or can't lead

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yourself to begin with, it's that it's almost like, you know,

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when you're in an aeroplane, and they say, you've got to do your

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oxygen mask first, before helping others. That's how I see

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self leadership, you can't lead others if you don't know how to

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lead yourself well. So there's a whole load of stuff in that

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which I'm sure we'll get into what actually makes up your self

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leadership style. But as a headline, I think it's all about

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the conditions you're creating. And it goes hand in hand with

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personal leadership strategy, which we've spoken about in a

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previous episode, and your communication style. Those are

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the three things that I think are completely like inter woven

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linked cocked bucketed,

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Carrie-Ann Wade: whichever Slayer action you want to use,

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but I love that, and I absolutely loved what you said.

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And it really resonated with me, Lee about, it's all the things

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that you do to lead others, but doing it for yourself. I haven't

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actually paraphrase that perfectly, because you said it

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much more eloquently than that. But absolutely. And it's a bit

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like that age old saying, isn't it about taking your own advice,

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and it's often easy to give everyone else really good

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advice, but much harder to take it for yourself. So there's

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something for me about being intentional in that space,

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around creating those conditions, and putting things

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in place that enable you to feel like you're taking some level of

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control over that self leadership. So I think that's a

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really helpful context to kind of frame the conversation today.

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And you specifically mentioned, actually, when you started that

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conversation about self leadership for you in the

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workplace means, and I appreciate that some level of

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self leadership you can do in your personal life as well. But

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I was wondering, why does self leadership matter in the

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workplace? What's, you know, what's its significance in that

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particular settings? Obviously, that's where we're talking about

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being a leader in that professional space?

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Yeah, well, I think it matters, because how

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you show up matters as a leader. So if you're turning up and

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you're chaotic, in the way that you work, you're going to create

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stress and chaos amongst your teams. If you don't have

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boundaries, you're probably not going to respect boundaries of

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others, which can cause resentment, and erodes trust. If

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you don't look after yourself, you're gonna burn out or

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variation of that eventually. So everything that you do to

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yourself, sets a tone and sets a precedent for your team. And it

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gives a really strong message about your expectations and

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standards, and basically contributes to the culture that

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you're creating. And so that's why I think it is so so

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important, because it's it says so much.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Absolutely setting the tone actually was

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exactly the the phrase that I'd written down when I was thinking

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about this having this conversation, it's that role

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model. And isn't it other people around what behaviors are

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acceptable standards, all of that kind of stuff in the

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workplace. And I'm sure we've all got examples of and probably

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more examples of the bad times than the good times, in fact,

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whereby, you know, I recall working for a leader, I think

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I've used this example before, back in the day of the

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Blackberry, when the little light used to flash when you got

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an email, and there was almost some sort of unwritten rule that

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had been created, by the way that that leader operated and

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the tone that that leaders set that if if they decided to send

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you an email at 930, at night that you would respond. And

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actually, you know, there was almost this culture within the

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team that when when they contact us at hours, even if we're not

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on call, we better respond, because otherwise tomorrow is

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going to be such a hideous day because the way that leader will

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treat us will be really bad. So there is something in there

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isn't there about that role modeling, but it's so easy to

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find the bad examples and sometimes harder to find the

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good ones. Yeah, well, the

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flip of that is I do I am noticing more and more

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often with people's email signatures. Was this to the

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email signatures where they go, you know, I might be sending

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this outside of normal working hours, but I don't expect you to

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respond outside of your normal working hours. That's really

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clear about I'm doing what works for me, but that doesn't mean

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that works for you. similarly, there was a chief exec that I

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was in touch with. And I got a auto response back when I sent

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him an email. And it told me that he only checks his emails a

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couple of times a day. And this wasn't the most effective way to

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get ahold of him. And therefore, you know, you can either wait

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for a response, but if it's urgent, this is how you get in

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touch. And I think it's that real clarity. It sets the

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boundaries, it's clarity in your communication, it's about the

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standard that you set and that you expect from others. And if

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it's, I do think, I feel like I'm more aware and noticing it

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more and more from people.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I love

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that actually about the out of office like auto response, I

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think I might give that a go. That's really, I really like

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that. That's good. And, and for me is well, it's like all my

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ANOVA go on properly to talk about some practical things that

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you can do, because you've set boundary setting. And that's

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something that I'm really passionate about, and a big part

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for me around around my own self leadership and then role

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modeling that to other people. But I also think there's

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something in there for me around the wellbeing piece. So while we

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are talking about self leadership mattering in the

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workplace, I do think it matters because it is about your own

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well being but also the well being of the people that you're

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leading, and actually how some of what you might be

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demonstrating through self leadership is about

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prioritizing, you know, personal well being maybe your mental

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health over some of the other things that certain leaders

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organizations might deem to be more important. And as you've

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said, that all impacts on the culture and the tone of your

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organization, that then as we've talked about, in other episodes

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of how to take the lead goes on to influence performance, and

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all of that kind of stuff. So hugely important for sure. I was

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going to move this on a little bit, though, because we've given

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a couple of examples about what self leadership might kind of

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mean, and why it matters, but is self leadership something that

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can be learned because I think with all of these things that we

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kind of coiner, I'm going to do a li now dualism coined a phrase

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or coined a term for and self leadership feels like a term

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that's maybe kind of come from that self care space, which has

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been quite popular way to describe a certain way of being

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is self leadership, something that people can learn? Or is it

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something that kind of, you have to sort of have to be about more

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naturally in order to demonstrate it? So yes, I

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think it's something you can learn. But I

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think it's also something that's always a work in progress,

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you're never perfect at it, because you adapt and change

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your context in which you operate in adapt and change all

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of these things, almost like shifting sands around you, which

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means you're constantly having to check in and evolve and

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understand. And so, yeah, I think it is something that you

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learn, I think, is also inextricably linked with your

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vulnerabilities and where you feel most exposed in the way

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that you lead. And therefore, it requires you to have some

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courage to work on it. And to tackle it, you need that self

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awareness, you need to have acceptance of where there are

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challenges and areas of opportunity for growth, you need

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to have real practical management approach to tackle

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some of that stuff. And yeah, you need to have a growth

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mindset. So yes, I think you can learn it, but you need to come

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in the right headspace to accept that it is something that you

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need to constantly work on. Yeah. And I find it interesting,

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because a lot of what I said at the beginning, this is something

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that I work on with a lot of my clients, but I would say 90% of

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the time when the clients come to me regarding they don't come

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to me and I want to work on myself leadership, they'll come

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with a problem or an issue where they if they feel like they're

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not making the impact that they want to make in their

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organization in their team. And it will whittle down to self

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leadership in one way or other strategy and communication as

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well. But it we always tend to be working on this constantly.

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And it's how they manage their stress and the pressure of the

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role. It's it's about them getting clarity in what they

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need to do in their role and what they're asking of other

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people in the role. So yeah, it's it's an all encompassing

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thing that you need to embrace. And it's probably that was a

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long way.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: And it's back to that point you made about it.

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It's those three things coming together, isn't it the strategy,

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the communication and the self leadership? So it isn't really a

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surprise to me when I hear you say actually, when you whittle

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it all down, the issues that you're working with with your

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clients can often come down to some sort of need in that self

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leadership space for that growth and that development and I am in

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agreement with you and interests. Sit in what you say

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about that growth mindset? Because I absolutely do think

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self leadership is something that can be learned. But it

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probably comes more naturally to some people than it does to

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others. If you are a person who, you know, is naturally curious,

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naturally wanting to constantly grow and evolve and develop

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yourself, and if you're a person who's maybe not as open to that,

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then you will probably find kind of thinking about self

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leadership a bit more challenging, and perhaps a bit

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more uncomfortable. And you talked about it's actually

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having that insight, isn't it really into the need to actually

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self lead and to grow and develop in that space. So

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without that insight, and that open mindedness, it probably

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will feel more difficult and like something that sounds like

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quite an alien thing to people. But I'm very hopeful that

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listeners of how to take the lead are in that growth mindset.

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And that's what they're, they're listening to the podcast, but

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so I was No, no, I was gonna say, and it does, it

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does feed back into the bigger question around when we when we

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say, you know, what is a leader and showing up as a good leader?

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And are you a leader, if you're not exhibiting certain

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attributes, and say that that self awareness, self growth,

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agenda almost is is a key part of being a lead? Or if you're

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lacking that, then do you have the quality to be a good leader?

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Is the question isn't

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Carrie-Ann Wade: it and it's that openness and transparency

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around that isn't it and I was saying earlier, it's it's easy

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to pick out all the times you've had bad leaders or challenging

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things have been happening. And it's hard to pick out the good,

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you know, more of the good things, particularly in this

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space. But I do recall working for a chief executive who

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absolutely, what I loved about working with them was that they

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were, they had the real insight. And they were really honest

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about the things that they found really difficult. And one of the

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things that they found really difficult was because they they

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got very operational, but that actually go, I know, I'm being

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too operational here. Because I have a tendency to move into

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that space when I personally feel stressed, because I like to

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feel that I'm in control. And I thought, well, even if they've

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not managed to always crack the fact that they're becoming a bit

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operational. The fact that they've actually recognized that

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in themselves as an area where they need to develop and they

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have that insight is a really good sign that they are somebody

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who is trying to practice self leadership. So there are good

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examples out there, it's just think sometimes easier to latch

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on to the to the more challenging one. But for me,

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it's definitely back to that point about being intentional in

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that space, really, like it's not something that just happens

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by chance, you don't know, it's just by coincidence that I'm

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focused on self leadership, I think you have to be really

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intentional and focused in that space.

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And because there are so many edits, as I said,

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right at the beginning, there are so many things that can make

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up your self leadership, there might be some stuff that you've,

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that feels pretty natural to you. And comes comes as a second

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nature, and then the things that you need to lean into. So you

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might be really clear on this is my leadership style. And this is

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my approach and my values and what I stand for. And you might

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have really poor boundaries, you might be a people pleaser, and

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that's, that's an area you've got to work on. You might be

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working in the weeds, and then that's demonstrated through

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micromanaging people and not being clear on what your setup

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is. And the type of schedule and rhythm that you work to. It

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might be that you're not that clear in how you're

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communicating said, but you might be clear on your

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boundaries, but you're not actually communicating it to

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someone. So there's so many different angles in which you

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come at it when you are looking at that self leadership piece.

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And some you'll be you'll be naturally great at and others

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will be a constant work in progress. Yeah,

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Carrie-Ann Wade: the people pleasing and boundary setting is

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what really resonates with me. And it's something that I talk a

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lot about with people that I mentor. And interestingly, it

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seems to be the biggest game changer for people when they're

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struggling with self belief or confidence or having the impact

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that you talked about wanting to have in their team or

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organization or about really being able to demonstrate their

Lee Griffith: 00:19:30

value quite a lot a bit seems to come back with the people that I

Lee Griffith: 00:19:34

work with to that boundary setting bit and like you say

Lee Griffith: 00:19:36

some of it is the How comfortable do you feel in

Lee Griffith: 00:19:40

setting the boundary and some of it is about are you actually

Lee Griffith: 00:19:43

communicating to other people what those boundaries are, so

Lee Griffith: 00:19:46

you can really establish them and as a slight digression I

Lee Griffith: 00:19:49

actually saw something on social media earlier with Sharon Stone,

Lee Griffith: 00:19:53

talking about the fact that when she was what this is how she

Lee Griffith: 00:19:56

describes it, she said when I was a people pleaser, everybody

Lee Griffith: 00:20:00

helped me, like, everybody liked me. As soon as I started to put

Lee Griffith: 00:20:04

boundaries in place, less and less people liked me. But

Lee Griffith: 00:20:08

actually, I was okay with that, because other parts of my life

Lee Griffith: 00:20:12

became richer for me for having put those boundaries in place.

Lee Griffith: 00:20:16

So I think sometimes in that self leadership space, whether

Lee Griffith: 00:20:19

it's boundary setting or something else, you sometimes

Lee Griffith: 00:20:22

have to be okay with sitting in the discomfort of not quite

Lee Griffith: 00:20:25

getting it right, or working out what it is that you need to do,

Lee Griffith: 00:20:29

to progress. So we've started, I think, to work into this space a

Lee Griffith: 00:20:34

little bit now about some practicalities, because you've

Lee Griffith: 00:20:37

given a few examples working in the weeds boundary setting. And

Lee Griffith: 00:20:41

so I wondered, really, if you could start to describe what

Lee Griffith: 00:20:47

self leadership might look like in your daily life as a leader,

Lee Griffith: 00:20:51

because I think it feels like quite a grand term. And we've

Lee Griffith: 00:20:54

talked about needing insight and the opportunity to reflect and

Lee Griffith: 00:20:58

understand where you might, you know, need to do more in that

Lee Griffith: 00:21:02

self leadership space where you might naturally be doing okay.

Lee Griffith: 00:21:06

And I sort of thought practically, if you were

Lee Griffith: 00:21:08

listening to this, and self leadership is something that

Lee Griffith: 00:21:10

you've maybe not come across before, it might be quite hard

Lee Griffith: 00:21:14

to think about what that looks like for you as a leader. So

Lee Griffith: 00:21:18

have you got any thoughts or descriptions you can kind of

Lee Griffith: 00:21:21

give us as to what self leadership looks like in your

Lee Griffith: 00:21:24

daily life as a leader?

Lee Griffith: 00:21:26

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That was fairly likely, I

Lee Griffith: 00:21:31

Carrie-Ann Wade: certainly have carry on, you've asked the right

Lee Griffith: 00:21:33

person.

Lee Griffith: 00:21:35

It's like a blue pizza. It's so fun. For me, I

Lee Griffith: 00:21:42

think. And I was thinking about this earlier. And has it changed

Lee Griffith: 00:21:49

when I left my corporate world and now run my own business or,

Lee Griffith: 00:21:53

or have my self leadership approaches been similar, but

Lee Griffith: 00:21:58

just the outcomes and outputs of change. And I think it's

Lee Griffith: 00:22:02

probably the latter. So at the heart of it is obviously who I

Lee Griffith: 00:22:07

am, what my what my style is how I want to be, and people to

Lee Griffith: 00:22:14

interact with me what they're going to get from me when they

Lee Griffith: 00:22:18

interact with me. So friendly, hopefully, that's how I come

Lee Griffith: 00:22:22

across, not too serious, but I will kind of call out the BS

Lee Griffith: 00:22:26

when when I hear it. And I can be quite direct in that effect.

Lee Griffith: 00:22:32

My values hopefully shine through, particularly integrity

Lee Griffith: 00:22:36

and authenticity, and all of that. So I've got my kind of who

Lee Griffith: 00:22:41

I am as a person, then I've got the, how do I approach work? So

Lee Griffith: 00:22:46

for me, that is, what's the type of work that I undertake? Who

Lee Griffith: 00:22:50

are the clients that I like to work with? Where do I want to

Lee Griffith: 00:22:54

invest my energy and attention day in day out in the corporate

Lee Griffith: 00:23:00

world that could be going back to that leadership strategy

Lee Griffith: 00:23:03

conversation that we had in a previous episode, the types of

Lee Griffith: 00:23:07

things that I really enjoyed and excelled versus what I didn't

Lee Griffith: 00:23:11

think I was that great at so clarity in that part. How I

Lee Griffith: 00:23:15

manage my day to day nurse, because I think that's a really

Lee Griffith: 00:23:19

important thing. So the boundaries around what days I

Lee Griffith: 00:23:23

work, I'm really clear on what am I working days in my

Lee Griffith: 00:23:26

business? And what aren't? What are my client facing days in my

Lee Griffith: 00:23:28

business? And when do I work kind of behind the scenes? What

Lee Griffith: 00:23:32

are the hours that I work, what's in and out of scope of

Lee Griffith: 00:23:36

the work that I do with clients and being clear with them from

Lee Griffith: 00:23:40

the outset so that I'm setting that context and clarity around

Lee Griffith: 00:23:45

what they can expect from me at what point and sticking to that

Lee Griffith: 00:23:49

if they try and challenge it in a really nice way. It's about my

Lee Griffith: 00:23:53

self care. So how I look after myself how I make sure I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:23:58

taking regular breaks, I'm eating well, I'm exercising

Lee Griffith: 00:24:03

again, when I was in my corporate world and I see this

Lee Griffith: 00:24:05

with some of the clients that I don't talk to. It's all well and

Lee Griffith: 00:24:08

good. You working really long hours, and being the first in

Lee Griffith: 00:24:12

the office and the last to leave and never taken a break and

Lee Griffith: 00:24:15

think it's you know, Hero mentality because you've walked

Lee Griffith: 00:24:19

down a sandwich and giving yourself indigestion but What's

Lee Griffith: 00:24:22

that telling other people? Yeah, and when you when you behave

Lee Griffith: 00:24:25

like that

Lee Griffith: 00:24:26

Carrie-Ann Wade: yeah, as well as telling other people that

Lee Griffith: 00:24:28

that's the expectation you have of how they'll behave that

Lee Griffith: 00:24:30

you're potentially doing yourself a disservice because

Lee Griffith: 00:24:33

actually that can be perceived as you've been some days not

Lee Griffith: 00:24:35

really that in control and can't manage their workplace and their

Lee Griffith: 00:24:39

priorities in the sort of focus say normal whatever normal is

Lee Griffith: 00:24:43

like the the normal hours or you know, way in which other people

Lee Griffith: 00:24:46

would do it. So absolutely that hero mentality is something that

Lee Griffith: 00:24:50

I've do really struggled with and I see a lot you know, with

Lee Griffith: 00:24:53

leaders that I work with in the comms profession if I'm honest,

Lee Griffith: 00:24:56

like breathing breathing I'm yeah doing like how busy I Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:25:02

and all of that, you know, that's not, you're not

Lee Griffith: 00:25:04

doing anyone any favors by saying how busy you are with

Lee Griffith: 00:25:07

time. It just shows you probably not really in control of what

Lee Griffith: 00:25:11

you're what you're working on, or you don't have your

Lee Griffith: 00:25:13

boundaries in place. See,

Lee Griffith: 00:25:14

Carrie-Ann Wade: and it can be quite disrespectful to other

Lee Griffith: 00:25:16

people actually, if you're coming across like that person

Lee Griffith: 00:25:18

who's always super busy, but too busy for you. Because I've got

Lee Griffith: 00:25:22

all these really important things to do. It can be very

Lee Griffith: 00:25:24

disrespectful of other people who might need some of your time

Lee Griffith: 00:25:28

and energy and knowledge for stuff. But you're just far, far,

Lee Griffith: 00:25:32

far too busy to, to give it to them. So I can see that. Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:25:36

got a lot of downforce to operate on that way.

Lee Griffith: 00:25:40

So I take the kind of who I am, how I'm showing up

Lee Griffith: 00:25:44

how I'm looking after myself, as the three things that I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:25:47

constantly checking in, and it is a constant check in is

Lee Griffith: 00:25:50

bringing awareness to all those parts, and bringing awareness to

Lee Griffith: 00:25:54

my, the emotional kind of intelligence part, how am I

Lee Griffith: 00:25:58

making other people feel? How do I feel? And is that something

Lee Griffith: 00:26:03

that I'm happy with? Does it feel aligned with what I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:26:07

striving to do? And

Lee Griffith: 00:26:08

Carrie-Ann Wade: do you know what I think you saying it, and

Lee Griffith: 00:26:11

we love, we're a singer threes today, I feel like you know who

Lee Griffith: 00:26:14

you are, how you're showing up, and how you're taking care of

Lee Griffith: 00:26:16

yourself is a really nice, fairly simple way to try and

Lee Griffith: 00:26:20

explain that. But I think it can be really easy for some leaders

Lee Griffith: 00:26:24

to feel totally comfortable in the space of who I am, because

Lee Griffith: 00:26:28

they've probably done a lot of work on personal values and all

Lee Griffith: 00:26:31

of that kind of stuff. But actually probably a bit more

Lee Griffith: 00:26:34

challenging in that space of how am I showing up? But also, how

Lee Griffith: 00:26:38

am I taking care of myself. And when you were talking there, it

Lee Griffith: 00:26:41

was making me think in that How am I showing up space about, I

Lee Griffith: 00:26:46

can already see that there might be people listening go? Well,

Lee Griffith: 00:26:49

it's really easy to show up in the way that these just

Lee Griffith: 00:26:52

described because she runs her own business. And she works for

Lee Griffith: 00:26:55

herself. And she has that autonomy and freedom of choice.

Lee Griffith: 00:26:58

And really easily get sucked into this space of like, I work

Lee Griffith: 00:27:02

for the big corporation or whatever. And I work for someone

Lee Griffith: 00:27:07

else, even though I'm a leader. And I don't have the opportunity

Lee Griffith: 00:27:09

to do that. But I would really challenge people, particularly

Lee Griffith: 00:27:13

those in leadership positions. But I think everyone to some

Lee Griffith: 00:27:17

level has a degree of autonomy around how they spend their

Lee Griffith: 00:27:20

working day, there will always be things that we are required

Lee Griffith: 00:27:24

to do and deliver. But the way in which we choose to do that we

Lee Griffith: 00:27:28

do have a level of control over and appreciate that varying

Lee Griffith: 00:27:32

degrees may be dependent on what your role is. But absolutely you

Lee Griffith: 00:27:36

can be choosing which meetings are of most benefit for you to

Lee Griffith: 00:27:40

be present at and turning down the meetings were absolutely

Lee Griffith: 00:27:43

there's no value add for you being there for you or for other

Lee Griffith: 00:27:47

people in the room. But some of that requires maybe, again, back

Lee Griffith: 00:27:51

in that uncomfy space, having some challenging conversations,

Lee Griffith: 00:27:55

because you're not just saying yes to everything, you're making

Lee Griffith: 00:27:57

some choices about how you are operating. So I was really

Lee Griffith: 00:28:02

intrigued by what you said about like kind of managing yourself

Lee Griffith: 00:28:05

and actually how you operate on a day to day basis. Because I

Lee Griffith: 00:28:08

think there would definitely be some people who would be more

Lee Griffith: 00:28:11

comfortable saying, Well, I don't have a choice. And I

Lee Griffith: 00:28:14

genuinely don't believe that that's true.

Lee Griffith: 00:28:17

But it's how you you know, if thinking about and

Lee Griffith: 00:28:21

you're right on the organizational front, it is

Lee Griffith: 00:28:24

different. Obviously, it's easier for me, running my own

Lee Griffith: 00:28:27

business, what I choose to do and how I choose to engage. But

Lee Griffith: 00:28:30

even when I worked in corporate and the work I do now when I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:28:36

supporting leaders to go through this process for themselves and

Lee Griffith: 00:28:39

for them to determine. And it's simple things like how am I

Lee Griffith: 00:28:43

given permission to my PA to be a better gatekeeper for me and

Lee Griffith: 00:28:48

to filter things because I'm being pulled into the weeds and

Lee Griffith: 00:28:52

people are trying to bypass process and procedure to come to

Lee Griffith: 00:28:56

me because they'll think I'll come and rescue. So if I've got

Lee Griffith: 00:28:59

clarity in what it is I'm trying to achieve, how am I enabling

Lee Griffith: 00:29:02

those around me to be supportive and give them permission to do

Lee Griffith: 00:29:05

the jobs that they need to do? When I when I worked in

Lee Griffith: 00:29:09

corporate, I'd be doing things like putting together not

Lee Griffith: 00:29:14

putting together putting aside half day every now and then

Lee Griffith: 00:29:18

where I would work just on strategy stuff. And I've seen

Lee Griffith: 00:29:20

many chief execs do that where they'll they'll spend a couple

Lee Griffith: 00:29:24

of hours, whether it's once a week, once a fortnight, where

Lee Griffith: 00:29:27

they are not at dinos closed door or they might not be on

Lee Griffith: 00:29:31

site, but they're doing that bigger picture thinking that

Lee Griffith: 00:29:33

only they can do. I used to put buffers around my meetings so

Lee Griffith: 00:29:38

that people couldn't just bounce me from one thing to another to

Lee Griffith: 00:29:41

another. And I'd be really grumpy about you know, if I

Lee Griffith: 00:29:44

wasn't getting my food.

Lee Griffith: 00:29:46

Carrie-Ann Wade: He's really friendly apart from when she's

Lee Griffith: 00:29:48

not had her lunch.

Lee Griffith: 00:29:51

But I would be you know, how am I finding time to

Lee Griffith: 00:29:54

get up and have a walk about and go and get some food and yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:29:58

of course I would just sit over Sit and eat my lunch at the desk

Lee Griffith: 00:30:02

like most people do. At some point, sometimes that was free

Lee Griffith: 00:30:05

choice. And I would just be reading newspaper or catching up

Lee Griffith: 00:30:09

on something that was a different type of thinking, from

Lee Griffith: 00:30:12

the drudgery of the day to day. Sometimes I'd be making sure I

Lee Griffith: 00:30:16

was going out or going to sit in the canteen because I wanted to

Lee Griffith: 00:30:21

be more visible. And people see that I wasn't always just sat on

Lee Griffith: 00:30:24

my desk. So these are choices you get to make

Lee Griffith: 00:30:28

Carrie-Ann Wade: absolutely and and you don't get to make them

Lee Griffith: 00:30:30

just because you're a leader. So some of the things you talked

Lee Griffith: 00:30:32

about, you know, sometimes people operate in chaos, and

Lee Griffith: 00:30:35

that that's not a good sign. And that's something that from a

Lee Griffith: 00:30:38

self leadership point of view you need to work on, it's really

Lee Griffith: 00:30:41

small changes. But really practical things have helped me

Lee Griffith: 00:30:45

to feel less chaotic in my working life and feel like I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:30:49

exercising some level of control. So I've completely

Lee Griffith: 00:30:52

changed the way that I write my to do list. So I used to be the

Lee Griffith: 00:30:55

queen of one massive, great big long list where something might

Lee Griffith: 00:30:58

randomly be crossed off in the middle of it. But I've added 10

Lee Griffith: 00:31:02

things on the bottom, and it's like never ending and now I do

Lee Griffith: 00:31:05

mining columns where I've got like my five minute jobs, my

Lee Griffith: 00:31:08

sort of half an hour tasks that need a bit more input from me.

Lee Griffith: 00:31:12

And then I've got like my projects, which require more

Lee Griffith: 00:31:14

time. And I couple that with time blocking in my diary for

Lee Griffith: 00:31:18

all of these different things. So like you say, you can't just

Lee Griffith: 00:31:20

bounce me in and out of meetings, because I blocked out

Lee Griffith: 00:31:23

an hour to do two of my 30 minute tasks on that day,

Lee Griffith: 00:31:26

because I know I need to get them done or have in my three

Lee Griffith: 00:31:30

non negotiables this week that I have to achieve, which I will

Lee Griffith: 00:31:33

prioritize over anything else that comes in that week. So

Lee Griffith: 00:31:36

there, there are lots of really practical things you can do, I

Lee Griffith: 00:31:39

think, to just help you manage yourself in a way that you are

Lee Griffith: 00:31:43

showing up in the workplace. But as you say, also role model to

Lee Griffith: 00:31:47

others, that it's okay for them to do that as well. And I think

Lee Griffith: 00:31:50

for me, that's a really important part of it. So while

Lee Griffith: 00:31:53

we are talking about self leadership and doing it for you

Lee Griffith: 00:31:56

today, I do think those points we made earlier about what time

Lee Griffith: 00:32:00

that sets in your organization, how you role model to others is

Lee Griffith: 00:32:04

really important, because that is about the culture that you

Lee Griffith: 00:32:06

start to create for sure.

Lee Griffith: 00:32:09

And I think it's even you we often talk about,

Lee Griffith: 00:32:13

you know, where's leadership going to go how a workplace

Lee Griffith: 00:32:16

changing the fact that you've got multi generations now,

Lee Griffith: 00:32:20

people are going to take different things in the way that

Lee Griffith: 00:32:22

you behave and act. And the fact that people may be working from

Lee Griffith: 00:32:27

home or working in a more flexible environment. Again,

Lee Griffith: 00:32:33

boundaries might look different ways of working might look

Lee Griffith: 00:32:35

different. How you look after yourself might be different.

Lee Griffith: 00:32:39

Because you actually you might need to physically get away from

Lee Griffith: 00:32:42

your desk, if you just sat on Zoom calls all day, getting up

Lee Griffith: 00:32:46

and about and saying that's okay.

Lee Griffith: 00:32:48

Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah. And there's something you mentioned

Lee Griffith: 00:32:50

earlier, and it was making me think about it. And he said

Lee Griffith: 00:32:52

about that flex based on different generations. But also,

Lee Griffith: 00:32:56

like things flex, because things different things happen in your

Lee Griffith: 00:32:59

organization, or in your role as a leader that you're not always

Lee Griffith: 00:33:03

going to have control over. But you might need to be intentional

Lee Griffith: 00:33:06

about how you choose to manage. And you know, some of that might

Lee Griffith: 00:33:10

be about how you're showing up. But some of it might also be

Lee Griffith: 00:33:12

about looking after yourself. And I know we've talked before

Lee Griffith: 00:33:16

about, you know, times when organizations are in crisis or

Lee Griffith: 00:33:19

sort of long term crisis and leaders feel like they just have

Lee Griffith: 00:33:22

to keep going and keep going and keep going. But actually that

Lee Griffith: 00:33:25

that bit that's more about self care is really important, isn't

Lee Griffith: 00:33:29

it, take a break, be able to breathe, reflect, like, have

Lee Griffith: 00:33:32

that opportunity to step away from something because

Lee Griffith: 00:33:35

fundamentally or be better in the long run for you to do that.

Lee Griffith: 00:33:39

So I guess I'm back back a bit to that hero mentality that we

Lee Griffith: 00:33:42

were talking about. But I think that kind of chunking it into

Lee Griffith: 00:33:46

the three is a really good way to start to look and assess kind

Lee Griffith: 00:33:50

of the areas where you're, you might be doing really well, but

Lee Griffith: 00:33:53

the areas where there's still a need for development. And think

Lee Griffith: 00:33:57

about the really practical things that you can put in place

Lee Griffith: 00:33:59

in your daily life as a leader. So I just noticed how long we've

Lee Griffith: 00:34:04

been talking for. And I knew this would be something that we

Lee Griffith: 00:34:07

would want to talk a lot about. But as is always our tradition

Lee Griffith: 00:34:11

with how to take lead. We like to leave the conversation with

Lee Griffith: 00:34:16

something there for our listeners. And I just wondered

Lee Griffith: 00:34:20

if this is a topic that interests the listeners, how can

Lee Griffith: 00:34:23

they start to develop further in this space? Have you got any top

Lee Griffith: 00:34:27

tips, resources, things you want to signpost, people to to help

Lee Griffith: 00:34:32

them really start to think about self leadership in a different

Lee Griffith: 00:34:35

way if it's something that they've not considered before?

Lee Griffith: 00:34:39

Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:34:40

I mean, rewind this episode and go back and

Lee Griffith: 00:34:43

listen again if some of the prompts but I think for me, it's

Lee Griffith: 00:34:51

starting from a point of clarity. So how are you leading

Lee Griffith: 00:34:56

yourself? And it's asking that question of When I'm leading

Lee Griffith: 00:35:01

myself, well, I am doing X, Y, and Zed. So being really

Lee Griffith: 00:35:06

specific of the things that that you think happen when you're

Lee Griffith: 00:35:09

leading well, and then ask yourself the counter question

Lee Griffith: 00:35:12

when I'm being ineffective. I am, X, Y, Zed, whatever that

Lee Griffith: 00:35:18

might be. And it's a good opportunity to get feedback from

Lee Griffith: 00:35:20

from people around you, as well to find out like how you're

Lee Griffith: 00:35:24

showing up well, and when when things might be challenged,

Lee Griffith: 00:35:26

because it might be certain contexts, it could be certain

Lee Griffith: 00:35:28

situations, it could be one of those particular areas we've

Lee Griffith: 00:35:31

covered in terms of self leadership. I think there's

Lee Griffith: 00:35:36

something about asking yourself, what might be getting in the way

Lee Griffith: 00:35:39

of you showing up as the type of leader that you want to be. And

Lee Griffith: 00:35:44

I do an exercise with my clients when we are working through

Lee Griffith: 00:35:48

their personal strategy. And one of the questions I always ask

Lee Griffith: 00:35:52

them is to achieve this, what will I need to do differently.

Lee Griffith: 00:35:57

And it brings some real clarity in some big ticket areas of

Lee Griffith: 00:36:02

where things might need to start to shift. And I would say this,

Lee Griffith: 00:36:06

but I do genuinely believe this, working with a coach can be

Lee Griffith: 00:36:09

really helpful to to ask those slightly more challenging

Lee Griffith: 00:36:13

questions. It's not about a coached won't tell you what to

Lee Griffith: 00:36:17

do. But they will help you to take ownership yourself of the

Lee Griffith: 00:36:21

need to change. And I think my final point is the thing that I

Lee Griffith: 00:36:26

talked about earlier, which is this is a constant cycle. So

Lee Griffith: 00:36:30

make sure you've got that regular check in with yourself

Lee Griffith: 00:36:33

and with others about how you're doing, have some types of goals

Lee Griffith: 00:36:37

so you can see the difference and your evidence in the changes

Lee Griffith: 00:36:41

that you're making. And look at how am I developing my skills?

Lee Griffith: 00:36:46

How am I developing myself awareness? How am I developing

Lee Griffith: 00:36:50

and growing as a leader? I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:36:52

Carrie-Ann Wade: loving the blankety blank style prompts the

Lee Griffith: 00:36:55

like fill in the blanks, and another nice reference for only

Lee Griffith: 00:36:58

some of our listeners might get. And I also think that is the

Lee Griffith: 00:37:02

killer question, isn't it that achievement question like what

Lee Griffith: 00:37:05

do I need to do differently in order to achieve this? I think

Lee Griffith: 00:37:08

it's such a good question. So I don't disagree with anything you

Lee Griffith: 00:37:11

said. And I'm actually really glad you brought feedback in

Lee Griffith: 00:37:14

because I think we ended up talking about feedback on pretty

Lee Griffith: 00:37:17

much every episode about Italy. But how are you doing that?

Lee Griffith: 00:37:20

Testing, I think is really important because what you

Lee Griffith: 00:37:23

perceive and what others are experiencing might be might be a

Lee Griffith: 00:37:26

bit different. And I guess the only extras I would add is in

Lee Griffith: 00:37:30

this space. For me. I have really enjoyed some of Brene

Lee Griffith: 00:37:35

Browns conversations, particularly around dare to

Lee Griffith: 00:37:37

lead. So the book, but she's on podcasts, she's TED talks, and I

Lee Griffith: 00:37:42

think she does provide some challenge in that space that

Lee Griffith: 00:37:45

isn't just about leadership, but is about self leadership. And I

Lee Griffith: 00:37:50

also think some of the things that we've talked about,

Lee Griffith: 00:37:53

particularly in the kind of how you're showing up and the the

Lee Griffith: 00:37:56

kind of self care piece how you're looking after yourself,

Lee Griffith: 00:37:59

are about habits and forming some good habits. So I would

Lee Griffith: 00:38:03

also recommend Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by

Lee Griffith: 00:38:07

Stephen Covey, if people wanted to read and I realized I haven't

Lee Griffith: 00:38:10

given a book recommendation for a while, so I thought I would

Lee Griffith: 00:38:13

throw those in to end the conversation. So I know we could

Lee Griffith: 00:38:18

talk about this. More I'm sure we'll revisit some of this as it

Lee Griffith: 00:38:22

is appropriate in future episodes. But I want to say

Lee Griffith: 00:38:26

thanks for sharing me I feel a bit inspired now to kind of

Lee Griffith: 00:38:29

revisit my own thinking around self leadership. So um, thanks

Lee Griffith: 00:38:33

for the mini coaching. For me today and for the listeners. And

Lee Griffith: 00:38:38

I hope people enjoyed this episode. And until next time,

Lee Griffith: 00:38:42

we'll talk again.

Lee Griffith: 00:38:44

See you unknown. Thanks for listening. Don't

Lee Griffith: 00:38:49

forget to hit follow to make sure you get the next episode.

Lee Griffith: 00:38:52

And if today's discussion resonated, please leave a review

Lee Griffith: 00:38:55

on Apple podcasts. We

Lee Griffith: 00:38:57

Carrie-Ann Wade: also have our substack community where you can

Lee Griffith: 00:38:59

get behind the scenes info, Ask Us Anything session and build

Lee Griffith: 00:39:03

your network with like minded leaders. Visit how to take the

Lee Griffith: 00:39:06

lead.substack.com To find out

Lee Griffith: 00:39:08

more. And if you want to work with us to

Lee Griffith: 00:39:10

challenge and change leadership in your organization. Get in

Lee Griffith: 00:39:13

touch by dropping us an email how to take the lead@gmail.com

Lee Griffith: 00:39:16

or DMS on the socials. Until next week,

Lee Griffith: 00:39:19

Carrie-Ann Wade: get out there and take the lead